Another Reason For The Nicklaus Setup & Hogan Pivot

I am absolutely sick of YouTube and the golf “instruction” found therein, so let’s take a break this U.S. Open and look at something positive, golf-wise.

If you’ll come along, there is another reason for using Jack Nicklaus’ setup and Ben Hogan’s pivot action – it has to do with ball placement within the setup.

If you look at the ball placement methods of Ben Hogan and Jack Nicklaus, you will find that one is very straightforward and the other…. not.

First, because it is the way I would recommend setting up, is the way Jack Nicklaus did it, and I would wager that just about every pro anywhere follows this system, more or less:

Jack Nicklaus’ Ball Positions


We all recognize this instantly, don’t we?  It’s so simple – you set up to make a swing and you know that your swing bottom, if you stand the same way every time, will be directly below the leading armpit.

Now, knowing where your swing bottom is going to be, it is very simple to set the ball up in a position relative to that swing bottom – starting with the Driver, the ball is at or slightly beyond the swing bottom, and you move the ball progressively towards the center of the stance with shorter clubs.

Notice how consistent Jack’s stance is with the different clubs, with the head just inside the trailing foot and the ball moving increasingly away from the leading armpit the short the club gets.


If Jack had had Hogan’s pivot action, he’d likely have won everything much the way Byron Nelson did when he was the first person to really figure out how to swing with steel shafts instead of the previous hickory shafts of old.

Nelson also invented the “bulge and roll” of the persimmon driver, grinding away at clubs in his workshop and taking advantage of the curved driver face on either side of the sweet spot.

These were two reasons Nelson won 11 Tour events in a row back in 1945 and 18 in total for one season, retiring shortly thereafter, having purchased his ranch (he was only still playing in order to raise money to do so, as he hated the Tour lifestyle and the effect constant traveling had on his sensitive stomach).

Jack later found similar if not identical dominance due to his nearly optimal setup (and great putter, of course).

This setup method meant he only had to swing, keeping his head stable, and he was assured of making solid contact.

Of course, there were times when his setup and pivot were off, and you saw really bad things even as he continued to win:


In the swing gif. above, his driver ball position is far too much to the target, which made him make a near reverse-pivot in order to be able to make contact with it on the down swing.

A ball more aligned with his leading armpit would have allowed him to pivot with a head position more to his right, as here in 1963:


So, he didn’t always have it down, which is why he didn’t win everything in sight, but his issues were easily solved with yearly visit to his coach Jack Grout for a tune-up.

Now, let’s take a look at Ben Hogan’s ball placement method:


Yes, that’s quite the formula there, and one that would have you pulling your hair out trying to perfect – there was a reason that Hogan, as good as he was, had to practice every single day, all day, and that’s because of what he was doing.

I can’t find the quote, but Hogan had said once, something along the lines of, “If I miss a day of practice, I notice the difference. Two days, my competitors will notice. Three, and the crowd will notice.”

As I say, it’s likely not an exact quote, but it definitely had him noticing his decline after missing only one day and something about two and three.

The point is, you don’t want to build a golf swing that requires this degree of practice and feel – I could go out today, if my shoulder would let me, and after three months’ off swinging, I could hit the ball just about as well as I could with practice, after shaking off the rust.

That’s because I follow Jack’s prescribed setup and I use Hogan’s pivot action.  The two together are unbeatable.

4 thoughts on “Another Reason For The Nicklaus Setup & Hogan Pivot

  1. AK's avatarsilly9ab7a2bd73

    Great analysis.I also prefer Jack’s constant ball position,but adjusting the stance for clubs. When I followed Hogan’s I found,that as you said it requires more practice.If you don’t have access to a range at your club and play the earliest slot in the morning, it’s not ideal.

    Byron Nelson was one of the greatest (possibly the greatest mind in golf).Even at his old age his mechanics were so perfect and fine tuned.If anyone wants to see great ball-striking,check out the shell game between him and Gene Littler.He wasted no time on the tees! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XdVWUTLhdI

  2. Chief Cowpie's avatarChief Cowpie

    It’s mesmerizing to watch Jack take his mighty swat. Seeing with the MCS trained eye, there is a united total body throwing of the golf head at the the ball with no contortionist moves we have become accustomed to seeing in the modern age. In taking a break from bad instruction as DJ suggests, it means also taking a break from watching the game on the telly for every spine wringing and hip jamming swing seen in the best performer of the moment is an invitation to do so as well. For now we refer to Hogan, Nelson and Nicklaus as having classic swings but looking at how kids are playing at my local course, old fashioned might as well be the operative term.

  3. scgolf12's avatarscgolf12

    Hey DJ,

    Do you recommend leaving the ball in the same position (for instance, just off the lead heel) for every club and just moving the right foot back for longer clubs or do you like moving the ball further back to accommodate shorter clubs – for instance, a Driver off the lead heel and Wedges would be just forward of center?

    I know Jack mentions he keeps the ball just off his lead heel and only moves his right foot back for longer clubs. I have always moved the ball and stance to accommodate different clubs. For instance, my Driver has the widest stance with the ball in-line with my lead armpit while a 7-iron my stance is about shoulder width with the ball in the middle of my left pec.

    I like Jack’s idea in principle but I feel like it could lead to some chunky shots with mid to short irons – maybe I need to give it a try though.

    1. DJ Watts's avatarDJ Watts Post author

      Yeah, I don’t know what Jack is talking about there Scott, because if you look at the picture of his ball positions with the different clubs, the ball is definitely not in the same position for driver, irons and wedges.

      Yes, you narrow your stance as the clubs get shorter, so the ball appears to move further to the center than it does, but it is definitely not in the same place:

      —–

      I mean, if you look at his hands, they are in the same position on all three setups – therefore, since the shaft tilt differs, the ball can’t be in the same spot for all three of the setups.

      Whenever I hear of something Hogan or Nicklaus did regarding their swings, even when they were the ones talking about it, I go and check what they did and compare it to what was said. If there is a discrepancy, I go with what they did.

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